Tottenham Hotspur Supporters’ Trust
Meeting with the Metropolitan Police and Tottenham Hotspur Football Club re Y Word
Notes
Monday 21st October 2013
7.00pm – 8.30pm
Meeting with the Metropolitan Police and Tottenham Hotspur Football Club re Y Word
Notes
Monday 21st October 2013
7.00pm – 8.30pm
Attendees
Chief Superintendent Mick Johnson, Metropolitan Police
Constable Steve Payne, Football Intelligence Officer, Scotland Yard
Constable Pat Brown, Metropolitan Police
Donna-Maria Cullen, Executive Director, THFC
Sue illing, Safety Officer, THFC
Jonathan Waite, Customer Services and Supporter Liaison Manager, THFC
Darren Alexander, Joint Chairman, THST
Katrina Law, Secretary, THST
Ellie Kershaw, THST
Notes from the meeting are as below. Owing to the sensitive nature of some of the subject matter, THST is not able to release full minutes from this session.
Build up to current position on Y Word
Chief Superintendent Mick Johnson explained how c 18 months ago, certain lawyers began to make complaints about the Y Word
The Met were obliged to investigate its’ impact on the community: was this offensive? What was the likelihood to offend? They undertook a Community Impact Assessment, a copy of which has been requested by THST
The complaints have now reached a level where The Met have decided the word is offensive
THST questioned what had prompted the turnaround from the FA Statement of 9th September to the Met Statement
of 3rd October
The Met confirmed there had been an increase in the number of complaints about the Y Word and that the situation had been heightened by external comments over the past few weeks
THST questioned, in this day and age, whether there was anything left that didn’t offend people. Were people being offended on other peoples’ behalf?
The Met stated it is no longer about the intention of causing offence but about another person taking offence
That person doesn’t have to be in the stadium. A member of a TV audience could make a complaint and that would count
Those arrested for chanting the Y word will be charged under Section 5 of the Public Order Act 1986. With the ‘intent’ clause covered off, as above
Whilst The Met consider there to be enough of a basis for the word to be classed as a hate word and that it is offensive regardless of context and intent, whether there is actually sufficient basis for a prosecution remains to be seen
The fan arrested at the West Ham game is currently on bail pending charges. On 19th November, a decision will be made by the CPS as to whether there are sufficient grounds on which to make a prosecution for using the Y Word
THST expressed concern that should the CPS decide to drop all charges, The Met would continue to arrest Spurs fans until they found one they could prosecute
There was, however, an agreement that a test case was needed to force a decision on this matter
Spurs Fans use of the Y Word
THST remained adamant that no Spurs fan uses the Y Word maliciously
THST expressed concern that this whole movement was being driven by certain individuals with their own agendas, not with combatting anti-Semitism at its’ heart
THST commented that the FA had taken the easiest option by targeting Spurs fans and not looking at the opposition fans, where genuine anti-Semitism existed
Opposition fans anti-Semitism
The Met confirmed that any time an opposition fan uses the Y Word, they view it as offensive and therefore a crime
Their policy for Spurs fans is to warn them before arresting. With opposition fans, a warning wouldn’t be needed. They would be arrested
THST argued that the Y Word is seldom levelled at Spurs fans by opposing supporters. It is normally ’Jew’,prefixed by a swear word
THST was incredulous that the behaviour of the West Ham United fans pre game, captured on video, during the match and post game across social media networks had seemingly gone unpunished whilst a Spurs fan had been arrested for singing a song he has sung for
decades
The Met confirmed that 5 West Ham fans had been arrested following a skirmish on the High Road post match
THST questioned why Police had not intervened and arrested the fans caught on video on Tottenham High Road pre game, shouting anti-Semitic chants, when they were surrounded by Police. This was a call made by the Officers at the time to prevent further crowd
disorder
THST took the opportunity to pass a dossier of anti-Semitic tweets onto the Met for investigation
THST will also be working closely with a dedicated department established to address anti-Semitism on social media within the
Met
The Met confirmed that 3 Aston Villa fans had been arrested for anti-Semitism during the game on Sunday
The Met also confirmed that 8 West Ham fans had been arrested for anti-Semitism during their match with Stoke City
THST also flagged the different interpretation of the law by different Police forces. If it was a hate word and a criminal offence to use the
term in London, surely it was in Birmingham or Liverpool also? The Met responded that each force had their own priorities and that the Y Word wasn’t as prevalent in other cities
THFC Consultation Paper
THFC issued their consultation paper to all Season Ticket Holders and Members on Friday, 18th October
Populus, the company running the survey, have reportedly received over 8000 responses already, which is unprecedented. This ndicates the depth of feeling amongst Spurs fans on this subject
THST questioned why the Met couldn’t have waited until after THFC had run their consultation before deciding it was a criminal offence to use the word within a match day environment
Should the individual arrested at West Ham face charges and be found guilty, the consultation would be irrelevant anyway as continued use of the ‘Yid’ identity would be a crime
THST commented the Met’s approach seemed ill timed and heavy handed
The Met reiterated their position
Conclusion
The Met consider the use of the Y Word in any context to be a crime
Whether it is a crime that can be prosecuted or not remains to be seen
The Met confirmed that there will be a sensible level of policing at the home games ahead of the CPS’s decision on whether to prosecute the fan arrested at the West Ham United match on 19th November
Meeting concluded at 8.30pm
Chief Superintendent Mick Johnson, Metropolitan Police
Constable Steve Payne, Football Intelligence Officer, Scotland Yard
Constable Pat Brown, Metropolitan Police
Donna-Maria Cullen, Executive Director, THFC
Sue illing, Safety Officer, THFC
Jonathan Waite, Customer Services and Supporter Liaison Manager, THFC
Darren Alexander, Joint Chairman, THST
Katrina Law, Secretary, THST
Ellie Kershaw, THST
Notes from the meeting are as below. Owing to the sensitive nature of some of the subject matter, THST is not able to release full minutes from this session.
Build up to current position on Y Word
Chief Superintendent Mick Johnson explained how c 18 months ago, certain lawyers began to make complaints about the Y Word
The Met were obliged to investigate its’ impact on the community: was this offensive? What was the likelihood to offend? They undertook a Community Impact Assessment, a copy of which has been requested by THST
The complaints have now reached a level where The Met have decided the word is offensive
THST questioned what had prompted the turnaround from the FA Statement of 9th September to the Met Statement
of 3rd October
The Met confirmed there had been an increase in the number of complaints about the Y Word and that the situation had been heightened by external comments over the past few weeks
THST questioned, in this day and age, whether there was anything left that didn’t offend people. Were people being offended on other peoples’ behalf?
The Met stated it is no longer about the intention of causing offence but about another person taking offence
That person doesn’t have to be in the stadium. A member of a TV audience could make a complaint and that would count
Those arrested for chanting the Y word will be charged under Section 5 of the Public Order Act 1986. With the ‘intent’ clause covered off, as above
Whilst The Met consider there to be enough of a basis for the word to be classed as a hate word and that it is offensive regardless of context and intent, whether there is actually sufficient basis for a prosecution remains to be seen
The fan arrested at the West Ham game is currently on bail pending charges. On 19th November, a decision will be made by the CPS as to whether there are sufficient grounds on which to make a prosecution for using the Y Word
THST expressed concern that should the CPS decide to drop all charges, The Met would continue to arrest Spurs fans until they found one they could prosecute
There was, however, an agreement that a test case was needed to force a decision on this matter
Spurs Fans use of the Y Word
THST remained adamant that no Spurs fan uses the Y Word maliciously
THST expressed concern that this whole movement was being driven by certain individuals with their own agendas, not with combatting anti-Semitism at its’ heart
THST commented that the FA had taken the easiest option by targeting Spurs fans and not looking at the opposition fans, where genuine anti-Semitism existed
Opposition fans anti-Semitism
The Met confirmed that any time an opposition fan uses the Y Word, they view it as offensive and therefore a crime
Their policy for Spurs fans is to warn them before arresting. With opposition fans, a warning wouldn’t be needed. They would be arrested
THST argued that the Y Word is seldom levelled at Spurs fans by opposing supporters. It is normally ’Jew’,prefixed by a swear word
THST was incredulous that the behaviour of the West Ham United fans pre game, captured on video, during the match and post game across social media networks had seemingly gone unpunished whilst a Spurs fan had been arrested for singing a song he has sung for
decades
The Met confirmed that 5 West Ham fans had been arrested following a skirmish on the High Road post match
THST questioned why Police had not intervened and arrested the fans caught on video on Tottenham High Road pre game, shouting anti-Semitic chants, when they were surrounded by Police. This was a call made by the Officers at the time to prevent further crowd
disorder
THST took the opportunity to pass a dossier of anti-Semitic tweets onto the Met for investigation
THST will also be working closely with a dedicated department established to address anti-Semitism on social media within the
Met
The Met confirmed that 3 Aston Villa fans had been arrested for anti-Semitism during the game on Sunday
The Met also confirmed that 8 West Ham fans had been arrested for anti-Semitism during their match with Stoke City
THST also flagged the different interpretation of the law by different Police forces. If it was a hate word and a criminal offence to use the
term in London, surely it was in Birmingham or Liverpool also? The Met responded that each force had their own priorities and that the Y Word wasn’t as prevalent in other cities
THFC Consultation Paper
THFC issued their consultation paper to all Season Ticket Holders and Members on Friday, 18th October
Populus, the company running the survey, have reportedly received over 8000 responses already, which is unprecedented. This ndicates the depth of feeling amongst Spurs fans on this subject
THST questioned why the Met couldn’t have waited until after THFC had run their consultation before deciding it was a criminal offence to use the word within a match day environment
Should the individual arrested at West Ham face charges and be found guilty, the consultation would be irrelevant anyway as continued use of the ‘Yid’ identity would be a crime
THST commented the Met’s approach seemed ill timed and heavy handed
The Met reiterated their position
Conclusion
The Met consider the use of the Y Word in any context to be a crime
Whether it is a crime that can be prosecuted or not remains to be seen
The Met confirmed that there will be a sensible level of policing at the home games ahead of the CPS’s decision on whether to prosecute the fan arrested at the West Ham United match on 19th November
Meeting concluded at 8.30pm
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