Note to THST members: These minutes were compiled following the Board to Board meeting on Monday 30 March and so came ahead of the THFC announcement regarding a settlement with Archway Steel on Tuesday 31 March. That announcement obviously changes some of the scenarios outlined below and we will be making further comment on the latest news imminently. In the interests of keeping our members as fully informed as possible, we’re issuing these minutes based on the situation as it stood on Monday night.
Tottenham Hotspur Supporters’ Trust
Tottenham Hotspur Football Club
Board to Board Meeting
Monday 30 March 2015
Tottenham Hotspur Football & Athletic Co Ltd, Lilywhite House, 6pm
Attendees
THST Board:
Katrina Law, Co-chair
Martin Cloake, Co-chair
Suraj Sharma, Secretary
Paul Head
Kevin FItzgerald
Keith Sharp
THFC Board:
Daniel Levy, Chairman
Donna Cullen, Executive Director
Ian Murphy, Head of Ticketing and Membership
Sue Tilling, Head of Safety
Jonathan Waite, Customer Services and Supporter Liaison Manager
Apologies:
Matthew Collecott – Finance and Operations Director
Minutes
Opening
- THST opened up by stating its appreciation of the regular Board to Board meetings
- Acknowledged this session was in more positive circumstances than the last meeting in November 2014
- Since our last meeting, there had been some good outcomes together with some frank exchanges of views on some issues
- A combination of the Club announcement of the Season Ticket renewal date being set back to 18 May after THST lobbying and the Premier League announcement regarding setting £1bn aside for five good causes, including match going fans, meant that we were at least facing in the same direction of travel
1. Stadium/ Northumberland Development Project
Stadium build
- The sheer scale of the project was referenced by the Club. This is the only private sector stadium to be built in this country in the last 20 years outside of the Emirates. It is a massive project, with complexities and challenges associated
- It was impossible to confirm timescales at this stage but the working date for the new stadium opening was August 2018
- THST appreciated the size of the project ahead and urged that fans are communicated with regularly and kept as up to speed as possible with developments as there was still a vacuum of information amongst the general fan base
- Most assumed it was now full steam ahead after the CPO resolution and THFC’s announcement that the title transfer of Archway Steel’s land would be in June 2015
- THFC urged fans to be patient during this period
- The working date for moving out of White Hart Lane was mentioned as May 2017, so two more seasons in the current stadium
- Hence the provisional date for a ground share would be 2017-18
Ground share
- Regarding the ground share, at the last meeting in November, there had been four options for Spurs’ temporary home: Upton Park, Olympic Stadium, Wembley and Stadium MK. Two of those options had been removed leaving Wembley and Stadium MK as the only possible destinations at this stage. The move away would be for one season
- No decisions have yet been made and discussions are ongoing over the ground share
- THFC described the situation as ‘work in progress’ as there was no certainty exactly which year this would be for at this stage
- THST stressed the need for full fan consultation before any decision is made as to venues, to which THFC agreed. However, THFC was mindful there may only be one option at the end of the day
- THFC confirmed that when an option was confirmed they would look to produce an attractive package re travel and ticketing
- Regarding the ground share season, THFC confirmed they would offer an amnesty to Season Ticket holders not wishing to travel to the temporary home
- THST suggested picking up with the Ticketing team at THFC at a separate meeting to discuss the impact an amnesty would have on the current Loyalty Point system (to be arranged under separate cover)
Stadium design
- As regards the design for the current stadium, at present THFC have planning permission for a 56,000 seater stadium and would not be drawn on much further detail at this stage
- The ‘kop’ end will stay in any redesign
- Disabled access has been given due attention and thought with THFC working with both Level Playing Field and the Tottenham Hotspur Disabled Fans Association to ensure disabled fans are fully catered for in the new stadium
Safe Standing
- Last May, THST had secured support for Safe Standing from THFC. This was revisited, with THFC again confirming they had no issues with standing areas in the new stadium and would be very willing to build that in should legislation change
- DMC expressed a wish to see a demonstration of rail seating, with other key decision makers at THFC having already seen this. THST to take up with Jon Darch of the Safe Standing Roadshow and to liaise further with DMC around this
- THST also agreed to contact the local authority with the purpose of gaining support for rail seating
- THST asked if THFC would be prepared, as 17/20 Premier League clubs had now spoken in support of safe standing, to instigate discussions at Premier League shareholder level to get the clubs to push more firmly for the change in legislation required to introduce safe standing. THFC said they were happy to be supportive but mindful that they were still in midst of new stadium build/safety discussions with the Council
- THST also raised the question of singing areas in the new stadium. THFC were in favour of this
Funding and finances
- Regarding funding and financing of the new stadium, THFC explained it wasn’t possible to enter into detailed discussions as there were still so many variables
- Naming Rights was something that would be arrived at mid project similar to with Emirates - existing deals shows it really only becomes a sensible conversation for sponsoring organisations once the construction has started
- Bank financing was a known quantity, however, with Rothschild acting as advisors and producing detailed modelling for them at present around servicing debt and cash ratios across each quarter
- Again, the size and magnitude of this project was stressed: talking hundreds of millions of pounds
- The impact of the stadium project on future transfer budgets was raised. A certain percentage would be ring fenced and impact would be minimised as far as possible
Haringey regeneration
- The timings for Haringey Council’s High Road West project were discussed – specifically the need for White Hart Lane station and the walkway to be completed at the same time as the stadium. The need for it to dovetail with the stadium was imperative. THFC was confident Haringey Council appreciated the need for aligned timings on this
- Regarding independent input into the stadium build, THFC confirmed the Heritage committee, Transport committee, Access Forum and Ticketing committee were to be reformed in the near future
2. Ticketing
- THST requested a separate meeting with the Ticketing staff at THFC to discuss pricing for the new stadium, including any multi-year deals that the Club may be considering
- THST touched on phased payment options for Season Tickets having undertaken research amongst other Premier League clubs in terms of 0% options. It was agreed to follow up outside of this meeting
- The discussion on Loyalty points during an amnesty period was also to be followed up
- The Football Supporters Federation “Share TV Wealth” campaign and the parallel Away Pricing Initiative was discussed in the light of the Premier League shareholders meeting last week
- THFC acknowledged the concerns over pricing but it was felt there was a long way to go before there would be any cross league agreement on how this could be progressed
- THFC also stressed their view of their unique circumstances in terms of financing a new stadium and the importance of ticketing revenue to that project. There was one pot of money from which the stadium needed to be built, transfers paid and ticket pricing addressed, which all added up
- THST explained ticket prices had already increased by 700% in the past 15 years and with a share of the £5.14bn domestic TV deal, it thought any proposed rise in pricing was unacceptable
- THST asked for an update on the take out from the Focus Groups who had met at the start of the year. THFC confirmed a new company had been appointed and more research groups would start in the near future
- THST reiterated their desire to be involved in any discussions around pricing options for the new stadium
3. Policing/ Safety work
- THST acknowledged the very positive work of both the Club and the Trust in this area over the past year
- Both had worked well over the MUFC allocations and the NUFC crowd management issues
- THFC’s work in Florence was also credited by THST, along with the generally good behaviour of our travelling fans at the UEL Round of 32 second leg
- The push for fan reps to sit on Safety Advisory Groups was raised, with THFC agreeing to follow up with Haringey Council
- THFC to firm up dates for match day shadowing / control room observation
- THFC to offer up dates for the next Police Safety Forum now new Football Intelligence Officer is in place
4. Player development/ recruitment
- THFC listed several factors which had played a part in the on-going success of the Academy
- These included Academy Manager John McDermott, the right recruitment policy, the right coaches, the right facilities, the right level of opportunities to progress to the first team and having a Coach willing to give young players a chance
- It takes a brave Coach to pick a young player over an established one and Mauricio Pochettino was not scared to play youngsters
- THFC welcomed the decisive team choices MP had made over the past season
- The training centre (Hotspur Way) was also felt to have helped in providing a positive working environment
- There was a discussion around the changes to the loan system from next year which would prevent players moving to lower league clubs outside of transfer windows. It was generally felt the loan system had been of great benefit to many of our younger players so this was not a welcome move by FIFA
- In terms of player recruitment, THFC confirmed there was a group involved in recruitment from the age of 8 up to Senior players. They were ‘talent spotters’
- All would consider ‘do we need cover in that position? How good is the player?’ etc. and the ultimate decision would be made by the person responsible for that age group
- The possibility of a testimonial for Michael Dawson was raised. It is possible, however, there are difficulties in arranging a match for a player active at another club
- Regarding transfer policy, THST stressed that retaining talent was as important (if not more so) as bringing in new talent
- THFC’s transfer comfort zone was with younger players around the £10-15m price range and they would look to return to that policy
- Was felt that moving away from this strategy in Summer 2013 hadn’t worked well for THFC, however, DL was keen to stress the Club had backed the Coach and Technical Director with those purchases
- The fact our most successful teams of late have had a British spine was also referenced
- It was felt Harry Kane, Ryan Mason and Nabil Bentaleb amongst others had helped reconnect the fan base with the Club this season
- The praise for MP at THFC and his popularity amongst his colleagues was also expressed by the Club
- The lack of injuries was credited to MP’s fitness regime, too
5. AOB
THST covered off outstanding questions from members in this section.
- What has happened to the Fans Forums? THFC confirmed the Junior event had been held already with the Supporter Groups Google Hangout being scheduled for April and the session with DL and MP coming up before the season end
- The Supporters Club Council suggestion was raised and it was agreed to follow up outside of this meeting to explore the viability and practicality of this initiative. There are now 116 Supporters Clubs worldwide
- The request for an online programme was raised. THFC agreed to explore an extension of eHotspur or delayed online publication of the programme due to rights issues
- The possible extension of Spurs TV to cover U21’s, U18’s and Ladies games was raised and THFC confirmed they would be happy to investigate further
- The memorial service for Dave Mackay will be held at St Stephens in Enfield – date just being confirmed with his family and will be announced shortly.
- There was a discussion around the complaints over the persistent and aggressive use of the Y Word at the recent FA Cup Youth game v Chelsea. THFC was keen to stress this was about the ‘level of appropriateness’ of the use of the word. THST maintained its position that this was not a hate word: the CPS had dismissed the cases against our fans for using the word in March 2014. THFC suggested this was more about the repeated use of the word in an ‘intimidating’ manner amongst a match demographic of predominantly families
- It was agreed to schedule the next meeting of THST and THFC for July 2015
The meeting concluded at 8pm.
Action Points
- THFC to schedule Ticketing meeting to cover off Loyalty Points during amnesty season (s), pricing in the new stadium, multi-year deals, phased payments
- THST to follow up with DMC re: demonstration of Rail Seating
- THST to contact Haringey Council to ascertain support for Safe Standing
- THFC to offer dates for match day observation with Safety team
- THFC to offer dates for next Police Safety Forum meeting
- THFC to include THST in Focus Groups for the new stadium
- THFC to involve THST and its members in the fans forum with MP and DL, as previously agreed
- THST and THFC to discuss Overseas Supporters Club Council proposal in more detail
- THST to schedule the next Board to Board Meeting with THFC for July 2015
Tottenham Hotspur Football Club
Board to Board Meeting
Monday 30 March 2015
Tottenham Hotspur Football & Athletic Co Ltd, Lilywhite House, 6pm
Attendees
THST Board:
Katrina Law, Co-chair
Martin Cloake, Co-chair
Suraj Sharma, Secretary
Paul Head
Kevin FItzgerald
Keith Sharp
THFC Board:
Daniel Levy, Chairman
Donna Cullen, Executive Director
Ian Murphy, Head of Ticketing and Membership
Sue Tilling, Head of Safety
Jonathan Waite, Customer Services and Supporter Liaison Manager
Apologies:
Matthew Collecott – Finance and Operations Director
Minutes
Opening
- THST opened up by stating its appreciation of the regular Board to Board meetings
- Acknowledged this session was in more positive circumstances than the last meeting in November 2014
- Since our last meeting, there had been some good outcomes together with some frank exchanges of views on some issues
- A combination of the Club announcement of the Season Ticket renewal date being set back to 18 May after THST lobbying and the Premier League announcement regarding setting £1bn aside for five good causes, including match going fans, meant that we were at least facing in the same direction of travel
1. Stadium/ Northumberland Development Project
Stadium build
- The sheer scale of the project was referenced by the Club. This is the only private sector stadium to be built in this country in the last 20 years outside of the Emirates. It is a massive project, with complexities and challenges associated
- It was impossible to confirm timescales at this stage but the working date for the new stadium opening was August 2018
- THST appreciated the size of the project ahead and urged that fans are communicated with regularly and kept as up to speed as possible with developments as there was still a vacuum of information amongst the general fan base
- Most assumed it was now full steam ahead after the CPO resolution and THFC’s announcement that the title transfer of Archway Steel’s land would be in June 2015
- THFC urged fans to be patient during this period
- The working date for moving out of White Hart Lane was mentioned as May 2017, so two more seasons in the current stadium
- Hence the provisional date for a ground share would be 2017-18
Ground share
- Regarding the ground share, at the last meeting in November, there had been four options for Spurs’ temporary home: Upton Park, Olympic Stadium, Wembley and Stadium MK. Two of those options had been removed leaving Wembley and Stadium MK as the only possible destinations at this stage. The move away would be for one season
- No decisions have yet been made and discussions are ongoing over the ground share
- THFC described the situation as ‘work in progress’ as there was no certainty exactly which year this would be for at this stage
- THST stressed the need for full fan consultation before any decision is made as to venues, to which THFC agreed. However, THFC was mindful there may only be one option at the end of the day
- THFC confirmed that when an option was confirmed they would look to produce an attractive package re travel and ticketing
- Regarding the ground share season, THFC confirmed they would offer an amnesty to Season Ticket holders not wishing to travel to the temporary home
- THST suggested picking up with the Ticketing team at THFC at a separate meeting to discuss the impact an amnesty would have on the current Loyalty Point system (to be arranged under separate cover)
Stadium design
- As regards the design for the current stadium, at present THFC have planning permission for a 56,000 seater stadium and would not be drawn on much further detail at this stage
- The ‘kop’ end will stay in any redesign
- Disabled access has been given due attention and thought with THFC working with both Level Playing Field and the Tottenham Hotspur Disabled Fans Association to ensure disabled fans are fully catered for in the new stadium
Safe Standing
- Last May, THST had secured support for Safe Standing from THFC. This was revisited, with THFC again confirming they had no issues with standing areas in the new stadium and would be very willing to build that in should legislation change
- DMC expressed a wish to see a demonstration of rail seating, with other key decision makers at THFC having already seen this. THST to take up with Jon Darch of the Safe Standing Roadshow and to liaise further with DMC around this
- THST also agreed to contact the local authority with the purpose of gaining support for rail seating
- THST asked if THFC would be prepared, as 17/20 Premier League clubs had now spoken in support of safe standing, to instigate discussions at Premier League shareholder level to get the clubs to push more firmly for the change in legislation required to introduce safe standing. THFC said they were happy to be supportive but mindful that they were still in midst of new stadium build/safety discussions with the Council
- THST also raised the question of singing areas in the new stadium. THFC were in favour of this
Funding and finances
- Regarding funding and financing of the new stadium, THFC explained it wasn’t possible to enter into detailed discussions as there were still so many variables
- Naming Rights was something that would be arrived at mid project similar to with Emirates - existing deals shows it really only becomes a sensible conversation for sponsoring organisations once the construction has started
- Bank financing was a known quantity, however, with Rothschild acting as advisors and producing detailed modelling for them at present around servicing debt and cash ratios across each quarter
- Again, the size and magnitude of this project was stressed: talking hundreds of millions of pounds
- The impact of the stadium project on future transfer budgets was raised. A certain percentage would be ring fenced and impact would be minimised as far as possible
Haringey regeneration
- The timings for Haringey Council’s High Road West project were discussed – specifically the need for White Hart Lane station and the walkway to be completed at the same time as the stadium. The need for it to dovetail with the stadium was imperative. THFC was confident Haringey Council appreciated the need for aligned timings on this
- Regarding independent input into the stadium build, THFC confirmed the Heritage committee, Transport committee, Access Forum and Ticketing committee were to be reformed in the near future
2. Ticketing
- THST requested a separate meeting with the Ticketing staff at THFC to discuss pricing for the new stadium, including any multi-year deals that the Club may be considering
- THST touched on phased payment options for Season Tickets having undertaken research amongst other Premier League clubs in terms of 0% options. It was agreed to follow up outside of this meeting
- The discussion on Loyalty points during an amnesty period was also to be followed up
- The Football Supporters Federation “Share TV Wealth” campaign and the parallel Away Pricing Initiative was discussed in the light of the Premier League shareholders meeting last week
- THFC acknowledged the concerns over pricing but it was felt there was a long way to go before there would be any cross league agreement on how this could be progressed
- THFC also stressed their view of their unique circumstances in terms of financing a new stadium and the importance of ticketing revenue to that project. There was one pot of money from which the stadium needed to be built, transfers paid and ticket pricing addressed, which all added up
- THST explained ticket prices had already increased by 700% in the past 15 years and with a share of the £5.14bn domestic TV deal, it thought any proposed rise in pricing was unacceptable
- THST asked for an update on the take out from the Focus Groups who had met at the start of the year. THFC confirmed a new company had been appointed and more research groups would start in the near future
- THST reiterated their desire to be involved in any discussions around pricing options for the new stadium
3. Policing/ Safety work
- THST acknowledged the very positive work of both the Club and the Trust in this area over the past year
- Both had worked well over the MUFC allocations and the NUFC crowd management issues
- THFC’s work in Florence was also credited by THST, along with the generally good behaviour of our travelling fans at the UEL Round of 32 second leg
- The push for fan reps to sit on Safety Advisory Groups was raised, with THFC agreeing to follow up with Haringey Council
- THFC to firm up dates for match day shadowing / control room observation
- THFC to offer up dates for the next Police Safety Forum now new Football Intelligence Officer is in place
4. Player development/ recruitment
- THFC listed several factors which had played a part in the on-going success of the Academy
- These included Academy Manager John McDermott, the right recruitment policy, the right coaches, the right facilities, the right level of opportunities to progress to the first team and having a Coach willing to give young players a chance
- It takes a brave Coach to pick a young player over an established one and Mauricio Pochettino was not scared to play youngsters
- THFC welcomed the decisive team choices MP had made over the past season
- The training centre (Hotspur Way) was also felt to have helped in providing a positive working environment
- There was a discussion around the changes to the loan system from next year which would prevent players moving to lower league clubs outside of transfer windows. It was generally felt the loan system had been of great benefit to many of our younger players so this was not a welcome move by FIFA
- In terms of player recruitment, THFC confirmed there was a group involved in recruitment from the age of 8 up to Senior players. They were ‘talent spotters’
- All would consider ‘do we need cover in that position? How good is the player?’ etc. and the ultimate decision would be made by the person responsible for that age group
- The possibility of a testimonial for Michael Dawson was raised. It is possible, however, there are difficulties in arranging a match for a player active at another club
- Regarding transfer policy, THST stressed that retaining talent was as important (if not more so) as bringing in new talent
- THFC’s transfer comfort zone was with younger players around the £10-15m price range and they would look to return to that policy
- Was felt that moving away from this strategy in Summer 2013 hadn’t worked well for THFC, however, DL was keen to stress the Club had backed the Coach and Technical Director with those purchases
- The fact our most successful teams of late have had a British spine was also referenced
- It was felt Harry Kane, Ryan Mason and Nabil Bentaleb amongst others had helped reconnect the fan base with the Club this season
- The praise for MP at THFC and his popularity amongst his colleagues was also expressed by the Club
- The lack of injuries was credited to MP’s fitness regime, too
5. AOB
THST covered off outstanding questions from members in this section.
- What has happened to the Fans Forums? THFC confirmed the Junior event had been held already with the Supporter Groups Google Hangout being scheduled for April and the session with DL and MP coming up before the season end
- The Supporters Club Council suggestion was raised and it was agreed to follow up outside of this meeting to explore the viability and practicality of this initiative. There are now 116 Supporters Clubs worldwide
- The request for an online programme was raised. THFC agreed to explore an extension of eHotspur or delayed online publication of the programme due to rights issues
- The possible extension of Spurs TV to cover U21’s, U18’s and Ladies games was raised and THFC confirmed they would be happy to investigate further
- The memorial service for Dave Mackay will be held at St Stephens in Enfield – date just being confirmed with his family and will be announced shortly.
- There was a discussion around the complaints over the persistent and aggressive use of the Y Word at the recent FA Cup Youth game v Chelsea. THFC was keen to stress this was about the ‘level of appropriateness’ of the use of the word. THST maintained its position that this was not a hate word: the CPS had dismissed the cases against our fans for using the word in March 2014. THFC suggested this was more about the repeated use of the word in an ‘intimidating’ manner amongst a match demographic of predominantly families
- It was agreed to schedule the next meeting of THST and THFC for July 2015
The meeting concluded at 8pm.
Action Points
- THFC to schedule Ticketing meeting to cover off Loyalty Points during amnesty season (s), pricing in the new stadium, multi-year deals, phased payments
- THST to follow up with DMC re: demonstration of Rail Seating
- THST to contact Haringey Council to ascertain support for Safe Standing
- THFC to offer dates for match day observation with Safety team
- THFC to offer dates for next Police Safety Forum meeting
- THFC to include THST in Focus Groups for the new stadium
- THFC to involve THST and its members in the fans forum with MP and DL, as previously agreed
- THST and THFC to discuss Overseas Supporters Club Council proposal in more detail
- THST to schedule the next Board to Board Meeting with THFC for July 2015
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